A beautiful and unique civil paint scheme and a sad story... This is 45-11620, N2872D, which was destroyed in the fatal crash of owner William Penn Patrick on June 9, 1973. I've seen the crash listed as at Clear Oak, CA and at Lake Country, CA, but don't know any of the details. Perhaps someone else can fill in the details?

That is correct Dave! Anyone have any more details for us?

Here is more detail for your website. My grandfather is Elton Garner, who owns the ranch adjacent to the former William Penn Patrick ranch in Clearlake Oaks CA. My grandfather witnessed the wreck of the above P51 Mustang in 1973, and was the first person to the crash site. He pulled Penn Patrick and his French Co-Pilot from the aircraft, both who were deceased. The plane had wrecked on a rock bluff that was accessible with a Jeep on an old cat fire trail, which my grandfather used to get to crash site. I heard the story a number of times when I was a kid. It is my understanding that Penn Patrick and his Co-pilot were flying up an down Long and High Valley most of the day. The P51 was traveling at or near full speed when my grandfather indicated that the pilot (either Penn Patrick or the co-pilot) had pulled up to fly over the mountain, and had apparently blacked - out due the speed and pitch of the airplane. At that point, the plane rolled over on itself and went into the mountain at full power. Parts of the fuselage and tail can be seen from our ranch in Long Valley, which is adjacent to Penn Patrick's ranch in High Valley, Clearlake CA.

Also killed aboard the aircraft was Christian George Hagert, Penn's Managing Director from Finland. I am not sure he was french or not, but here is the information.

My name is William Gregory Hart Mcginnis. My mother, Marian McGinnis, was engaged to William Penn Patrick at the time of his death. The location of the plane crash was Clearlake Oaks, Ca. Bill Patrick had taken off from his High Valley Ranch airstrip with Christian George Hagert in the back jump seat. They had made a few high speed passes over the big house on the hill and lost power and crashed. My mother and I were at the scene within a few hours along with a bunch of other people. The plane crashed into the side of a hill approx. 300 yards down from a dirt road. For obvious reasons, they would not let us down to the actual crash site. There was no fire, and not much left of the plane. About a month after the crash I hiked down to the scene. There was a large hole and a few small pieces of the plane left. I brought a piece back with me and still have it to this day. I have tried to find out more about this accident. Some say it wasn't an accident and the plane had been tampered with. I have never seen the accident report but very much would like to. If anyone has any information I would appreciate all I can get.

... I have never seen the accident report but very much would like to. If anyone has any information I would appreciate all I can get.I'm afraid Mr Rose's story is not true. There was nothing left of the plane, Bill Patrick or Christian Hagert. With all due respect, they had to use DNA to determine which of the few parts they found belonged to who.

William -I was WPP's best friend for many years, and president of his several companies from 1964 to 1971. Your mother was Bill's secretary/close friend during the time I was with both of them. But, even as president of Bill's various companies, I always felt it was better to "clear a trip" down the l-o-n-g hallway to Bill's office from mine through your mother, as she was like a "beautiful bulldog," protecting him from "whatever"! If you'd like to know more about what it was "really like" back in those days, shoot me an email at bfg3@directcon.net, or just call me at (800) 248-3555. Regardless, understand that she was a beautiful and wonderful woman! All the best! BFG3Ben Gay IIIWWW.BFG3.COMbfg3@directcon.net(800) 248-3555

Just a voyeur who stumbled onto this. Comment on "nothing left of plane". I am pretty sure I talked to a Mustang owner who said "You'd be amazed what good stuff that is left of a wreck. I bought what was left of 'the guy whose other plane crashed into Ferrels Ice Cream's Mustang and got many useful parts."

Wow. My uncle Jack was the Ranch Boss for WPP's High Valley Ranch. Went there often and lucked into rides in both the P-51 and his Stearman bi-plane. I recently read that Patrick had big time legal troubles around the same time of the crash. Suicide?

Bret - Your Uncle Jack was a good man. We all spent many happy hours with him. But as for Bill committing suicide (with another person on-board), not a chance! Not on his worst day. In the last few years of his business/personal life, Bill had many troubles. And when I was called about the crash, suicide crossed my mind - but not after I learned that there was another person with him. And as for all of the other "conspiracies," they are nonsense. Bill was a victim of his own recklessness. Period. So much so that I refused to fly with him again a couple of years before his untimely death. All the best! BFG3Ben Gay IIIWWW.BFG3.COMbfg3@directcon.net(800) 248-3555

My name is Jim Ferrante. My father Louis Ferrante was a HM Distributor and owned the Holiday Magic training center and CRS in the William Penn Hotel in Pittsburgh. I have good memories of HM and met Mr Patrick personally. During the summer of 1972 I was the youngest to attend an LDIY class at High Valley Ranch. During camp I became very ill and another student Kimbery Ann Allen died. I was with her when she died there. I am looking for information anyone me be able to give me about Mr Patrick, HM and High Valley Ranch. My father knew William Patrick, remembers Marian McGinnis, Ben Gay and speaks highly of all. Mr Gay if your offer to know what it was "really like" back then could be extended to me it would be appreciated. Please contact me. Respectfully, Jim Ferrante IIjimferrante@ferranteinteriors.com

Jim - We just returned from Norway and received your voice mail message, which caused me to revisit this site and read your post. I'll call you in the next day or so to discuss whatever you'd like and/or are curious about. I do, however, remember your father well! Lou was always one of my favorite Holiday Magic characters - literally a laugh a minute! - and an excellent salesman to boot! When we talk, ask me how LDI and the modern human development/personal growth business (EST, Life Spring, PSI World, etc, etc, etc, etc) really began. The myths about it are truly amazing & amusing! The truth is actually much simpler. All the best! BFG3Ben Gay IIIThe ClosersWWW.BFG3.COM bfg3@directcon.net (800) 248-3555

Shock and Awe. I'm kind of shocked that nobody is expressing any awe over how Thomas D. Willhite also died in a plane crash flying on the same ranch.

Anyway I definitely want to own and fly my own airplanes. However, Just In Case - I think I'll stay away from the curse of owning that ranch now.

In some of the discussions about the crash of 72D, it has been suggested that the plane had been tampered with. I had just gone to work at Aeroschellville when the crash occurred. Very shortly afterward, we acquired WPP's Decathelon, which had been tied down next to 72D. My employer had just brought the plane over from Gnoss, and asked me to go through the plane and check it out. When I checked the fuel drains, I was amazed to find massive quantities of water coming out. I don't know how Bob was able to get the plane from Gnoss to Schellville without the engine quiting. The thing is, where the two planes had been tied down, next to each other, there was a water spiggott with a garden house. I saw this directly myself. Rumors were flying at the time. A power failure and no fire in the Mustang crash, from where I was standing, certainly sounded suspicious to me. Go figure!

Hi, I am Bill Patrick's nephew from NC. I can attest to the info provided at the time of the accident, that no bodies were found. They did find small fragments like teeth. I remember spending a few weeks with Gregory and Marion after this happened and the details were discussed over and over again. Marie (Bill's wife) supposedly flew to Switzerland with the casket of Bill's passenger however. He was more a dare devil than suicidal.

Hello: Is there a person of knowledge of Mr. William Penn Patrick's family connected to this site? I lived next door to a young woman, at that time, in San Rafael and thought about her and her husband and son when reading through the loss of P-51 Mustangs, my favorite plane of all time. Thank you.

I was a line boy for Mr Patrick at Spectrum Air in the early 70s. I washed the Mustang for him the day before his tragic crash. After this, I quit Spectrum Air and joined the Air Force.

...became aide to WPP when Lewis left, worked until a few weeks before the F-86 episode. Returned to work for Marie a few days after the ranch tragedy. Confirm the info that only fragments were found after the accident.

Hi Ben, Jack Mather and our family were on the ranch from 1969 to 1973. Jack as you know was ranch manager and Bill and Jack did all sorts fun thing riding there motorcycles and horse back riding and Bill had dinner in our kitchen many times. All our kids had rides in his planes and I even rode in the P-51. I was not on the ranch that morning but remember seeing it on the TV.what a shock. Got back to the ranch that evening and Marie had been there and left.what a tragedy.

Ben I forgot to tell you that Jack Mather died on October 24,1996. I kinda like to think that Jack and Bill are flying around up there. I ofter run into Marrion McGinnes and she is fine. Miss those two very much.

Camille - Although we communicated privately earlier today (Great to hear from you after all these years!), I thought I should acknowledge your missive here, too! (So I didn't look like an unresponsive clod!) I was very sorry to hear that Jack had passed away. As I told nephew Bret a few months ago, Jack was one of my favorites. In fact, since I was busting my tail supporting the ranch and WPP's many other "hobbies," I sort of envied him his life up at the ranch! Same for Art Stagg, our corporate pilot! Stay well and in touch! I wish you . . .
All the best!
BFG3 Ben Gay III
The Closers (800) 248-3555 WWW.BFG3.COM bfg3@directcon.net

My name is Jason Pape, the grandson of Fred Pape who took over as President of HM while Bill was running his gubernatorial campaign. I was wondering if anyone remembered anything about him or knew anything by chance, since everyone seems to have questions and answers.

Jason -

I'm your man! Your "Grandfather Fred" was the president of Holiday Magic (1965-1968), just before I was. And he was one of my early/favorite mentors.

Although it ended badly between us (he was fired, I was promoted), for reasons I won't bore you with, the sheer joy he'd experienced from the births of your mother/father/aunts/ uncles/cousins/nieces/nephews (sorry, I don't know where you fit in the many-layered "Fred Pape Family Tree" - he was on his sixth wife when we lost contact!), Fred was responsible for my wife and me having Ben Gay IV in 1968. If you're curious about how he made that happen, feel free to ask!

Anyway, Fred was (and still is, I hope!) really something! Like Frank Sinatra, he could be an absolute tyrant/jackass one minute, the kindest, most woderful person on earth the next.

But he was always a class act, complete with his jockey-like stature, perfect tailor-made suits (he looked like he just came off of the top of a wedding cake) and his ever-present gold Dunhill cigarette lighter.

And I could go on and on and on . . .

All the best!
Ben Gay III
The Closers
WWW.BFG3.COM
bfg3@directcon.net
(800) 248-3555

HELLO, I WAS AIDE TO WPP FROM JAN,1970 TO 1973, LEFT JUST BEFORE THE CRASH.I ALSO WENT UP IN THE P-51, WHAT A RIDE HE GAVE ME. IT WAS GREAT WORKING FOR MR. PATRICK, I LEARNED A LOT. MET A LOT OF GOOD PEOPLE. SOME ARE STILL FRIENDS, LIKE JOHN HART. I SEE WHERE ANDY BERLINER IS DOING VERY WELL WITH HIS COMPANY. I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHERE MARIE IS AND HOW SHE IS DOING? SHE HAS ASISTER, RUTH THAT I KNEW WELL AND LIKED HER A LOT. ANYONE KNOW WHERE SHE IS? MI=ORE SOON ODUS

Dear Ben,

I 'stumbled' upon this site and want you to know how it makes my heart smile to read your kind responses to a history that is tucked away in the memories of so many people. Your contribution to that time was monumental and we all grew by leaps and bounds. It is impossible to know how the Holiday Magic legacy has evolved but it certainly served as a source of so many of the leadership modalities that exist today. William Penn-Patrick lives on through so many of us and I for one, am forever grateful for the gifts I received from you, Bill, John Hart, and the many other people I was fortunate enough to interact with during my involvement. Thank you. Warmly, Susan

Susan McNeal Velasquez
SusanVelas@aol.com
susanvelasquez.com

Dear Susan,

Good to hear from you! And thank you for your very kind words! Know that I am a long-time member of your Appreciation Society, too!

Hard to believe that, as of this writing, WPP has been gone 38 years and, were he alive, would now be 80 years old! But I know he'd smile if he knew we were still talking about him and those times after all these years. In fact, and as usual, I talked about him and his impact on my life in a seminar I did at Lake Tahoe just last weekend.

Stay well and in touch, young lady. And help me keep the flame we all helped ignite alive!

Love and best wishes,
Ben Gay III
The Closers
WWW.BFG3.COM
bfg3@directcon.net
(800) 248-3555

Dear Ben, I think it would be a terrific idea to write the 'family tree' of how many groups originated from the Holiday Magic personal development trainings including LDI, Mind Dynamics, and even the Success Teams. It is interesting that so few people really know the genesis of the movements that have impacted both the business and personal development models that are available today.
My eldest daughter, Lisa (who you so generously helped when she contacted you after finding your book "The Closer") said something thought-provoking the other day. She said: "Mom, it has been so long since the original training concepts were presented, that it seems like it is time to go 'back to basics' because a lot of people today are ignorant of even basic responsibility principles." Anyway, I have enjoyed your writing style just through these posts, so thought I'd put an encouraging vote in for the possibility of sparking the topic of your next book! With Love, Susan

SusanVelas@aol.com
susanvelasquez.com

Looks like we've about said it all, so I won't be checking back here on a regular basis.
However, if anyone posts anything they think I could answer/ help with, please post it here . . . but then shoot me a "heads up" email at bfg3@directcon.net so I can come back here, read it and respond.
Those were interesting times, changing the lives, directly and indirectly, of millions of people all around the world - whether they ever heard of William Penn Patrick, Holiday Magic et al, or me!
All the best!
Ben Gay III
The Closers
WWW.BFG3.COM
bfg3@directcon.net
(800) 248-3555

To Jim Ferrante,
I was an instructor on the Survival Trip and was there when you were there. I just bumped into the infamous Ben Gay up here in Placerville and he suggested I visit this site. I would like to talk to you and give you any answers you may need. You are welcome to call me at 530-303-3010, I look forward to your call or email.
Blessings,

Maggie

Maggie -
Since I see no sign of Jim having checked in here in over two years, I'd suggest you also email him directly (see his post).
All the best!
Ben Gay III
WWW.BFG3.COM
bfg3@directcon.net

For those with an interest in William Penn Patrick I would suggest reading his biography still available as a used book which is titled with his name. I would also recommend reading "The Pit" by Gene Church. It's about Patrick's leadership seminar (LDI) which was extremely intense both physically and emotionally. Like the Navy SEALS training meets Tony Robbins.

Ben,
I go back to 1973 with WPP and Werner Erhard ........my primary relationship was with Warner during the time just before he and WPP split and EST was founded. Very interesting times ........I would love to hear the myths surrounding these amazing movements, what happened to Warner, his son, etc.? I was planning to go to the "program on the ranch " shortly after WPP died.
Rob

Rob -
I also received your voice mail, so I'll call you to discuss those days. It's way too much to type here . . . at least with my limited skills!
By the way, you already know the myths. I'll tell you the simple truth as to how it all began.
All the best!
Ben Gay III
WWW.BFG3.COM